tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2018387523779914474.post790074918916763913..comments2023-12-31T05:01:58.031-06:00Comments on Young Stranger: Why We MarchJohn Gustav-Wrathallhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03557940681381951271noreply@blogger.comBlogger3125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2018387523779914474.post-17681270470261887452013-06-20T08:32:49.901-05:002013-06-20T08:32:49.901-05:00Alan - I like the last word of your comment. Patie...Alan - I like the last word of your comment. Patience. I've said it in our previous exchanges, and I'll say it again. Change takes place <i>in relationship.</i><br /><br />Sara - Thanks for this information. I was not aware of any disciplinary action taken against anyone. It is reassuring to learn that the few cases of disciplinary action were revoked.<br /><br />I am sorry to hear of instances of alienation and ostracism. Still, my sense is that the majority experience has been positive, not negative, and the marches are having a leavening effect on the Mormon community as a whole. That's what I've seen locally, here in Minnesota anyway. Reports that I've gotten from other Mormon Pride participants have been similar.John Gustav-Wrathallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03557940681381951271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2018387523779914474.post-82511369894388376882013-06-20T00:39:15.474-05:002013-06-20T00:39:15.474-05:00"No active Mormons who participated in Pride ..."No active Mormons who participated in Pride reported experiencing alienation or ostracism (or Church discipline!) for having participated."<br /><br />This isn't correct. People faced alienation and ostracism - but given that we weren't sure if we'd be excommunicated or have rocks lobbed at us (which someone did publicly threaten recently, directly at us, via Twitter) social problems weren't as much of a concern prior to the 2012 marches. Here's where a DC marcher chronicles how she was treated after she marched: https://www.facebook.com/MormonsForEquality/posts/479019785492805<br /><br />As for discipline, some bishops took away temple recommends, but stake presidents restored them. I don't know of anyone who lost a temple recommend or faced more serious action for having marched - that doesn't mean, however, it didn't happen.Sara Longhttps://www.facebook.com/MormonsForEqualitynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2018387523779914474.post-79735419351679095792013-06-19T18:31:13.632-05:002013-06-19T18:31:13.632-05:00Of course we don't agree, but one line of this...Of course we don't agree, but one line of this post stuck out for me:<br /><br />"A year ago, the idea of Mormons at Pride was shocking. Now it feels strangely normal, maybe part of a much better, 'new normal.'"<br /><br />In 2012, I suggested that Mormons in Pride was already a new normal -- the Church having representation in Pride, but not budging on the question of 'sin,' which is why I felt that the MBB contingent was problematic. When I talked to my mother about it last year, she didn't bat a eye about Mormons in Pride ("support your loved ones!"), but also had no intention to budge on the sin question.<br /><br />Perhaps at some point "supporting loved ones" will equate to equality in the Church, and things are moving slowly in that direction. But I also think an effect of this "new normal" is a strengthening of the same-old, same-old. It really gets one thinking about how "change" happens over long periods of time, and the interplay between dominant, residual and emergent paradigms. I suppose you just have more patience.alanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15705068701218002977noreply@blogger.com