tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2018387523779914474.post6242701371158517160..comments2023-12-31T05:01:58.031-06:00Comments on Young Stranger: The Domino Theory of Gospel TruthJohn Gustav-Wrathallhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03557940681381951271noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2018387523779914474.post-8706009086783372572011-12-10T10:41:01.996-06:002011-12-10T10:41:01.996-06:00Thanks, Bravone... We're overdue to check in....Thanks, Bravone... We're overdue to check in. Hope you are doing well...John Gustav-Wrathallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03557940681381951271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2018387523779914474.post-74507037831888333102011-12-10T01:15:01.380-06:002011-12-10T01:15:01.380-06:00Thanks for this post John. I am always strengthene...Thanks for this post John. I am always strengthened by your faith.Bravonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02762204502534599107noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2018387523779914474.post-86934832948313989302011-12-07T16:33:01.704-06:002011-12-07T16:33:01.704-06:00Neal - love back at you! :-)Neal - love back at you! :-)John Gustav-Wrathallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03557940681381951271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2018387523779914474.post-77353304560567945282011-12-07T16:31:42.927-06:002011-12-07T16:31:42.927-06:00Sulli - I've always LOVED your shelf metaphor....Sulli - I've always LOVED your shelf metaphor.<br /><br />I guess I would say I did (in college) reach the point where my shelf collapsed.<br /><br />I probably did toss a lot of stuff at that point. But there was also a lot of stuff I COULDN'T bring myself to toss. That stuff went into a storage box and got put in the basement. Years later, I stumbled across the box, and realized how incredibly wonderful and glad I was that I hadn't tossed it, because there really were some treasures in there...!!<br /><br />Ditto to you what I said to Reuben about the Domino Theory as a faith principle... I will say that there have been points in my faith journey were it was useful to obey without understanding completely. We should NOT, as a general rule, do this if we have serious moral qualms about obedience... If we do not honor conscience in the spiritual path, we risk doing ourselves serious spiritual harm, IMHO.John Gustav-Wrathallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03557940681381951271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2018387523779914474.post-34118969127151079492011-12-07T16:26:39.345-06:002011-12-07T16:26:39.345-06:00Rob - I guess we've each had a chance to share...Rob - I guess we've each had a chance to share our positions with one another, and explain why we are each not convinced by the position of the other...<br /><br />I hope you've understood my posts and responses to your comments in those terms: NOT as criticisms of the path you've chosen, but as explanations of the path I've chosen.John Gustav-Wrathallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03557940681381951271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2018387523779914474.post-20455348657057895532011-12-07T16:23:20.831-06:002011-12-07T16:23:20.831-06:00Reuben - I think you are right.
However, as I tri...Reuben - I think you are right.<br /><br />However, as I tried to convey in my essay, I don't feel the Domino Theory is completely without merit.<br /><br />I think it is useful in the early stages of faith, when maximum effort is required, and minimum knowledge is possessed.<br /><br />At its best, there is a kind of faith principle at work in the Domino Theory. If I've read the Book of Mormon, and it's expanded my spiritual awareness and has motivated me to make important changes in my life, this is a good thing. It's a clue, a hint that maybe there's good in the rest of the religion. Hopefully that experience of goodness motivates us to go on and keep "experimenting" with the word.<br /><br />In this very limited sense, a testimony of one aspect of the gospel can provide what I'll call a provisional testimony of the rest.<br /><br />But a provisional testimony is just that. It is sketchy, incomplete, and won't sustain us over the long haul. But it doesn't need to sustain us over the long haul... It just needs to sustain us into the next steps that allow us to develop a provisional testimony into a fuller, more complete, more mature, more complex testimony.<br /><br />So yes... Leaders do promote it, and in the right circumstances, so would I.<br /><br />But leaders also teach the principles found in D&C 9, and Alma 32, and Thessalonians and Isaiah and the Gospel of Matthew... If you stick around in the Church long enough, you will eventually learn that a full blown testimony requires work and a hunger for knowledge...<br /><br />STILL -- it is human nature to be lazy; to rely too long on a provisional testimony (or on the testimonies of others); to mistake belief for knowledge (Alma is very careful to distinguish between the two and emphasize the work that it takes to transform belief into knowledge!); and to let false knowledge lull us into arrogance. All human tendencies that the Gospel is designed to help us work on...!!!John Gustav-Wrathallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03557940681381951271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2018387523779914474.post-8492911472364181142011-12-06T18:19:50.890-06:002011-12-06T18:19:50.890-06:00As alway, loved your post, your thought process, a...As alway, loved your post, your thought process, and the amazing faith you possess. I especially loved the metaphor that each truth "brick" of our spriritual house must be carefully placed, one at a time, upon the foundation of Christ. Awesome.Nealhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03943975175380497835noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2018387523779914474.post-57787089745225643472011-12-06T16:35:34.357-06:002011-12-06T16:35:34.357-06:00I think the domino theory is what ultimately creat...I think the domino theory is what ultimately creates the proverbial "shelf" that so many ex-Mos talk about. "The church is true, the prophets are totally correct. I don't understand x, y, and z so I will wait until the next life to worry about them." <br /><br />Rather than doing what you seem to have done and take things one piece at a time things just get stacked up. The shelf breaks dumping everything... <br /><br />I do feel though that the church leaders themselves contribute to this. When phrases like "obedience with exactness" are pounded into one's head it does not seem like actual thought is requires or desired... <br /><br />This post illistrates the very reason that I so admire your faith J G-W. You have done all of the work and every bit of the gospel that you embrace is because you have worked for it and own it.Kileyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14598910475787952773noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2018387523779914474.post-33408787908229207572011-12-06T15:35:50.271-06:002011-12-06T15:35:50.271-06:00I can't hope to respond in detail to your post...I can't hope to respond in detail to your post, John, nor do I have the time to explain in detail why my experience differs from what you've written here. But the "there are good things here so I'll go with them anyway despite the flaws" approach does not work for me. The gospel principles I have tried and found beneficial for my own life are all freely available outside the LDS church, without any of the unacceptable features of the LDS version.<br /><br />No earthly organization is perfect. What makes the LDS one different from all others is that it claims a monopoly on divine authorization, yet it has just as many problems, errors, mistakes, etc. as any other "competitor." More, in fact, because having set up a uniquely higher standard against which to measure itself, its shortcomings and failures are all the more stark. To the degree that, while I freely concede you and others may find good things in its teachings, I can never again accept that it is what it claims to be: God's sole authorized kingdom on earth. There is just too much evidence to the contrary. Not "I feel it in my heart and my own life" evidence, but hard, objective, verifiable evidence. The kind that would persuade a court. To me, it is compelling and convincing. <br /><br />I have found much greater happiness and peace for myself and my family elsewhere.Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02992194211469009236noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2018387523779914474.post-34864330180312465402011-12-06T15:34:34.806-06:002011-12-06T15:34:34.806-06:00Unfortunately, I feel like some of the most ardent...Unfortunately, I feel like some of the most ardent proponents of the Domino Theory are the prophets themselves. I sometimes get the impression that they want us to embrace the Domino Theory.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12610344574135095983noreply@blogger.com